Solan: hiya
Shyamalee: hi dear...
Solan: busy kya?
Shyamalee: No dear... not at all for you...
Solan: ok tell me your views on this reservation fiasco
Shyamalee: what to say... though as an instrument I am very much for it...I can also smell the dirty politics behind it.
Solan: leave the politics but as such are u against it. Do you think India does not need reservation?
Shyamalee: No... I think India needs reservations
Solan: that’s all na do u think sitting in air conditioned offices and thinking and writing about all these issues is a crime?
Shyamalee: No... What we need a healthy debate...? I too get quite a few mails against reservation. Most of those are based on stupid arguments. I ignore them like Jesus..."forgive them they don't know what they are saying". Of late, I am trying to learn the art of Non-violence... what I understood... it is a very difficult art. Hats up to Buddha, Jesus, Gandhi who practiced it to the core.
Solan: but then, the rate at which these anti- reservation mails reach my inbox from all over, I think any such callous forwards will have a repercussion in the ever so gullible Indian minds. Don't u think so?
Shyamalee: No... This type world is too small in this country. And it is not easy to penetrate the mass in this way. You can wash out only a few fragile minds... not all.. And yours is not among those.
Solan: no m not talking about myself. But others, and though the percentage of people capable of reading such stuff is low, but from amongst these only we hear loud voices na, the mass anyways is not concerned
Shyamalee: And that’s the point of debate.. What we want is let this unconnected mass be a part of it. Then, it does not matter which side they take.
The wonderful thing about this country is its democracy. In last fifty odd years it has only strengthen... I for think so. And the politicians have to connect themselves with this unconnected mass. So its not easy to anti- the policy. So all these noises will turn out to be meaningless at the most.
Solan: are u suggesting that these anti resv. Stuff might go unheard of
Shyamalee: Yaa.. There is no way out....
Solan: haaan? But don't you think the intensity with which things are going will bear no consequences
Shyamalee: This is my feeling... After working with the unconnected people...seeing policy and bureaucracy from close quarters...That’s where the irresponsible politics lies...that distracts the youth from healthy debate. But its, I feel only a transitory phase.
Solan: amen! What else can I say?
Shyamalee: You are not among the one to oppose or support.... you have the duty to understand it...though I know we all live in politics, but, our politics has taught us to be so..
Solan: then who does so?
Shyamalee: partly...activists...others include those fragile minds who are in the herd. We are supposed to learn things. Society to be precise..
Solan: humm
Shyamalee: And as learner we are open to viewpoints…Now you recall what I wrote on your feminism blog...I meant this...
Solan: humm
16 comments:
Beautiful and productive conversation..
I hope you feel the intesity and domain of the phrase 'unconnected mass'
a thing which I have so often tried to point out
When you say
'sitting in airconditioned offices and thinking and writing about all these issues'
I feel you sense the discontinuity of your self
I absolutely agree to comrade's view that such things are not going to create a functional effect.
Democracy is the only one of modern concepts that has achieved a functional nature in our state.
Things such as reservation, secularism, and if you dont mind feminism are still in papers.
I want you to realise the connection of such concepts to a much wider scope of economy.
its as if economics is the superset and life arranges itself in the dictation of it.
no more preachings
tukun
yah I know, comrade that these amzing lil secrets to academics you know, the other day, he told me a sentence ki
to be an academician u need to relegate or seperate the activist in you and only then can u think logically and rationally...And I realised soon after he spelled it out for me, yah thats so true & I didnt realise it all this while...I just love my discussions with him. He is a God when it comes to do with academics.
you make me proud only that at times you are little itchy with your audacity
hi,
'Now you recall what I wrote on your feminism blog...I meant this'..
feminism blog?? can i have the link ...
hey runa, you are the first person of 'forward community' that I know has supported reservation. You claimed that India needs reservation, but you haven't justified your stand. What makes you think that India needs reservation?
hey passerby55! its one of my posts just three posts below this recent one, its titled "its to all my male members"...just some basics about feminism.
@chandan will get back to you
@chandan...
i will be rude enuf to butt into this conversation and point out the fact that even today 32% of the sc/st/obcs live below the povery line as opposed to 2% of upper caste ppl...to say 50 yrs of reservation has yielded no results and therefore it has to be scrapped is to take the easier and more "forward community" way out...
@timekiller, what did you mean? M sorry but who are you addressing?
hey Coming back to your comment Chandan,
I agree but I do not see a point in what you ask. I would rather suggest you to come out of the stereotypical, accepted way of thinking and think about the matter, you will find the reasons yourself.
personally speaking I just want a fair treatment to the reserved classes.
for more than 100 years they have been pushed to the margins, subjugated to filth and treated like shit, and the upper classes enjoyed it. Coming to basics , THEY WERE NOT GIVEN THE RIGHT TO EDUCATION FOR ALMOST 100 YEARS. and in these years the clan/caste/class who have had the previledge utilised the most of it, and left them far behind.
So now when we see them lagging behind in few cases (mind you have intelligent reserved canditates as friends, they are more rational than u n me) we raise the issue of "merit". Now do you realise the unfair treatment that they have all along been metted with?
Also if we really really think that merit needs to be accounted, and find them to be unfit meritorious aptitude, then why the hell at all does the reservation percentage threaten us? somewhere we know, the whole lot of people know that this merit criteria is nothing but a farce...
so there you go with a long, disintigrated explanation...have a nice time figuring things out for yourself!
will just say, try to start thinking on humanitarian grounds it helps you as a person.
PS.-All this was said in a very good n friendly spirit
k let me correct myself on the last comment I made...thousands of years...in place of hundreds of years
hmmmm...fury of a woman scorned!! ha ha , just kidding buddy.
I am for reservation upto engineering and medical stage. But not in IIT,IIM,IISc, DRDO, ISRO, BARC. These are premier institutes of national importance for which only merit should be the sole criteria, 1000s of years of marginalization notwithstanding. If 100% of seats are taken by reserveed people in the above mentioned institutes, i have no problem with that but they have to compete with everyone in open level playing field.
Backward community should be provided with all the means so that they dont spend a paisa till the 12th class
There should be free education to all girls upto 10th class and also money to pay for their books, stationary and transport charges.
Foward community is exposed to only a small fraction of educated OBC and SC ST people. Majority of these are still labourers and are in villages, uneducated with no chance of a decent college education.When those people get a level playing field, then, i think it is the so called 'forward comminity' that needs reservation.
HEy first things first there wasn't any fury, I rather enjoyed writing that coment, coz I really thought That I had put my thoughts well. And what is this "forwad community"?
initially I thought, let me not be part of this conversation since I was there in the main text...but the way the discussion building up it was tempting...
This of course does not mean that I will create arguments for or against...it is already clarified by Siddharth above, where he clearly says these things hardly have the functional nature of state. It is only democracy, if at all to any extent...
But, the arguments of Chandan Kumar reminds me of my pointing out those fragile minds to solan in the conversation...I think he failed to or deliberately moving away from the “conversation” progressed. It is not what choice we want to give or bargain for...In other words, who are we to choose or bargain for others. May be a deep scratching is required then like a committee report type saying (1) free education for girls up to 10th std)+free books etc...(2) backward community should be provided with all the means...
If you look into the reports of various committees dusting in Yojana Bhawan (Planning Commission) we will find many more than these recommendations ...
recently came across with a nice article in EPW on this issue... may be you can see if interested...
http://www.epw.org.in/showArticles.php?root=2006&leaf=06&filename=10181&filetype=pdf
sorry for missing out all the action.
but did anyone notice that cyber space in india is an upper caste space, and in that way it does make an impact.....
the whole point is that medusa, that what about the disconnected masses? and no political action as far as i can understand it, is going to happen unless these activist 'pro and against' groups include them...and beleive me none of these groups are more powerfull and resourcefull than the political parties
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